Gap Year(s): From Backpacking to Digital Nomads with Amanda & Ryan of The World Wanderers

For those lucky enough to find a way to travel during a gap year, before entering into the normal pattern of sedentary life and a job, the taste of the sights and adventure can be addictive. Our guests on today's show are Amanda and Ryan, hosts of The World Wanderers podcast, and full-time digital nomads with a passion for exploring the unknown. Their podcast and blog focus on travel as a lifestyle as well as amazing destinations and what it means to live a digitally nomadic life in today's climate. Amanda and Ryan started traveling together in 2011 and have not looked back since, visiting over 60 countries. They are now basing their explorations from a home-away-from-home in Mexico! In our conversation, we cover some of the important landmarks in our guests' journey, talking about making brave and bold decisions and getting out to see the world! Listeners can expect to come away with some fresh inspiration on how to budget, pack light, and make things happen, as well as some great reasons to tune into Amanda and Ryan's podcast!

Today on On Arrival:

•    Backpacking in Iceland under the midnight sun!

•    Gap year experiences and the specific feeling attached to that stage of life.

•    Falling in love with Peru and the adventurous decision to move to South America.  

•    Lessons learned early on about expenses and finding ways to fund trips.

•    The most surprising countries that Amanda and Ryan have visited: Bolivia, Cambodia, and Colombia.

•    Traveling as a couple and the benefits of life partnership on the road.  

•    Tips from Amanda and Ryan on backpacking and surviving hostels and shared rooms.

•    Discovering and exploring the idea of becoming digital nomads and living a life of adventure.

Visit TheWorldWanderers.com to learn more about Amanda & Ryan and their podcast.

Follow The World Wanderers on Instagram and Facebook

If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. If you know someone who you think would enjoy this episode, please share it with them!

Follow @onarrivaltravel on Instagram, Facebook, & Twitter

Do you have a burning travel question? Visit www.onarrival.com to submit your question for KT & Jordan to answer on the next show!

Transcript

Episode 15 - Gap Year(s): From Backpacking to Digital Nomads with Amanda & Ryan of The World Wanderers

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:09] JM: Welcome to On Arrival, the travelers podcast.

[00:00:12] KT: We're your hosts, KT and Jordan. Throughout our 20s, we've lived and traveled all around the world, and fell in love with exploring new cultures.

[00:00:22] JM: Here at On Arrival, we interview some of the world's most eccentric travelers, to hear their original and authentic stories.

[00:00:29] KT: We hope this show inspires you to take your next trip.

[00:00:32] JM: Then when you land, you have a game plan.

[00:00:35] KT: On Arrival.

[EPISODE]

[00:00:38] KT: Ladies and gentlemen, we have a giveaway going on this week. Head over to our Instagram @onarrivaltravel for all the details.

Let's start us off today with some listener questions. This week's questions come from Katherine and Matt. We're going to start with Katherine's question. Her question is, how to pack in two carry-ons, a suitcase and a backpack?

[00:01:02] JM: Or those suitcase fees, those check baggage fees. I like it.

[00:01:06] KT: Minimalist lifestyle. That's great.

[00:01:09] JM: All right. First and foremost, you want to pack as few shoes as possible. Those take up a lot of space.

[00:01:18] KT: What size shoe do you wear, Jordan?

[00:01:21] JM: I wear a size 15, so it's even more important for me. Another good tip is to use your shoes to pack things.

[00:01:29] KT: For context, I can fit my straightener inside of his shoe. His shoes are huge, so we put our perfume, cologne, all the above in there.

[00:01:38] JM: Thanks for that.

[00:01:39] KT: You’re welcome.

[00:01:40] JM: They get it. Yes. Cologne, anything you want to protect, glass, or little things like that. I put my shavers and stuff in there. Anything you want to keep safe, you don't want breaking any luggage. Good idea to put it inside shoes.

[00:01:57] KT: My favorite organization tip is packing cubes. I'm obsessed with them. I put my bra and underwear in one. I put my makeup in one. I put my toiletries in one. It's just a great way when you arrive at a destination, you know exactly where everything is. Easy access.

[00:02:16] JM: Yeah. I don't use packing cubes, but I can see how they’re useful for you. I like to fold my clothes with as little folds as possible.

[00:02:26] KT: As flat as they can be, right?

[00:02:27] JM: As flat as can be. I’ll fold them once, maybe. For me, I feel that's the best way I use the least space.

[00:02:36] KT: Then for me, I like to roll them up into a cylinder. That saves a lot of space for me. I also do that elongated fold, like Jordan was talking about.

[00:02:47] JM: As far as your backpack, keep it essential stuff you need for on the flight.

[00:02:53] KT: Easy access.

[00:02:55] JM: Important documents.

[00:02:57] KT: Snacks.

[00:02:58] JM: Snacks are important.

[00:02:59] KT: We love packing a snack bag. We are like toddlers. We literally bring a snack bag every time we fly, easy access snacks. We have our passport, our phones, chopstick.

[00:03:09] JM: Airport snacks are just so expensive. It's nice to have your own option. Also, obviously, going to keep your computer in there, your iPad, chargers. I always keep my neck pillow with me. That’s what we always keep in my backpack. What's next?

[00:03:28] KT: Another thing that Jordan and I have been doing as of this year, is doing that crossbody bag, and just having a small crossbody where we put items, like our phone and our chopstick and our passport.

[00:03:41] JM: Passport, wallet.

[00:03:42] KT: I used to put them in my backpack, but I don't do that now. I use a crossbody. 

[00:03:46] JM: Anything that's really important, or you need often, or really good access to, put in that crossbody. We both got Nike crossbody bags, different styles, but those are very convenient.

[00:03:57] KT: It’s nice. Yeah, because you got to think like, I was having to take off my backpack every time I wanted my wallet, or every time I wanted my passport. Now, it's just right on my chest. It's a safety thing too. It makes me feel better, knowing it's right there.

[00:04:11] JM: Yeah. You always know what's right there. If you're on a short trip, you can even pack a rolling carry-on, and have your crossbody. You don't even need a backpack, which is also nice. Then you're not – you don't have as much to carry.

[00:04:23] KT: Yeah. Or you just have the backpack and the crossbody like we did for Aruba.

[00:04:27] JM: Exactly. I think, the biggest answer to that question is just be very particular about what is important. Be very discerning.

[00:04:39] KT: Yes. Thank you, Katherine for the question. Let's move on to Matt. We're basically playing a game here. It's a travel version of this or that. I'm going to introduce a topic and Jordan, you tell me which one. Airport or road trip?

[00:04:53] JM: Airport.

[00:04:55] KT: Same with me. Walk everywhere, or Uber everywhere?

[00:04:59] JM: Uber.

[00:05:00] KT: Walk for me. Vrbo or hotel?

[00:05:04] JM: Hotel.

[00:05:05] KT: Same for me. Sleeping, or up early?

[00:05:09] JM: Up early.

[00:05:10] KT: Sleeping for me. Tropical or city?

[00:05:15] JM: I can't decide on that one. I like both.

[00:05:18] KT: I would say, tropical for me. Then again, I like the city. Yeah, it’s hard. Okay, I’ll give it to you.

[00:05:23] JM: It’s hard. I can’t choose. I can’t choose on that one.

[00:05:25] KT: Mountain or beach?

[00:05:27] JM: I'd say, beach.

[00:05:28] KT: Same. Adventure or relaxing?

[00:05:31] JM: Most times, adventure, I would say.

[00:05:33] KT: Yeah, same. Then we have those – In the summer, we like to take a beach vacation that's relaxing.

[00:05:39] JM: Yeah, you need that every now and again. More times than not, we're on the go.

[00:05:43] KT: Desert or snow?

[00:05:45] JM: Desert.

[00:05:46] KT: Ooh, praying for somewhere warm this year.

[00:05:48] JM: Not the desert, please.

[00:05:50] KT: Not the desert, but somewhere warm. Somewhere with minimal snow.

[00:05:54] JM: Yeah. That'd be ideal. I think, we've got enough snow last year for a few years.

[00:05:59] KT: Yeah. That was fun. Thanks, Matt.

[00:06:01] JM: All right. This weekend travel?

[00:06:03] KT: Yes. This weekend travel, I just want to go back to last week's topic that we touched on, which was the Olympics and the COVID situation in Japan. A little update there, there's at least seven teams that have had run-ins with the COVID-19 virus in Tokyo already. Those include Brazil, Uganda, Serbia, Israel and several other nations. I was reading that this has been a lot to handle for the hotels in Japan and their staff, where Japan is a country with – I think, it's 10% of people or whatever we said last week that are vaccinated. You got to think, the staff members are having to take care of athletes that are infected and they're not potentially vaccinated themselves.

[00:06:54] JM: Yeah. I was reading just the difficulty they're having in keeping the staff separate from the athletes, because the staff is so vulnerable.

[00:07:05] KT: It's a tough situation.

[00:07:06] JM: It is.

[00:07:07] KT: We are just days out from the July 23rd opening ceremony. Hopefully, they can pull it together by then. We will see. I'm excited to watch. Cheer on Slovenia and USA, right?

[00:07:18] JM: Right. Exactly. Cheering both on. Wishing them both the success. I can imagine, it's tough being quarantined to that room. Hopefully.

[00:07:27] KT: Yeah. You got to think like, this is your big moment, the Olympics. Say, you had COVID, or you're just recovering from it, or you had a contact, so you're stuck in your hotel room for days. This is leading up to your big moment. You'd be stuck in your room, thinking about the opportunity ahead. It might be a little nerve-racking. Also, I mean, once in a lifetime.

[00:07:52] JM: Yeah. The margin of error at that level is so slim, I can only imagine trying to recover from COVID and compete at a world-class level.

[00:08:01] KT: Crazy. All right, moving on.

[00:08:04] JM: We had an episode a couple months ago with a friend of ours, Sam Elliott, who is on a cruise ship to nowhere in Singapore.

[00:08:14] KT: It was episode number seven. If you haven't listened, go back and listen to that one.

[00:08:19] JM: We got worried for a second. We saw an article about a cruise ship in Singapore, cruising to nowhere that is in quarantine.

[00:08:27] KT: We're like, “Oh, no. Sam” I texted her. I was like, “Hey, are you okay?” She's like, “Oh, no. It's not my ship.”

[00:08:32] JM: Good thing it was not her ship, but thousands of people on a cruise ship in Singapore, were quarantined to their rooms, because of a COVID case. It's a developing situation. We were worried. We're happy Sam is okay. Just a crazy time. With so many people trying to get back to traveling, the world still not being quite right yet. Everybody’s still trying to figure it out. Just be safe and be mindful.

[00:08:56] KT: I have a question, Jordan. Would you feel confident cruising right now? Do you think the risk is bigger than the reward? I do.

[00:09:05] JM: Yeah, it’s tough. Because on the one hand, you can make the case that it's safer, because you are able to control the environment. At the same time, if a case like this leaks through into your secure environment, all of a sudden, everybody's quarantined together on this boat, and it's way worse.

[00:09:28] KT: I say no, because I am not a fan of cruising, which I've said in previous episodes. I just can't imagine being quarantined on a boat for that long. I had a hard time with a five-day cruise. It wouldn't be good for me. Jordan, you could probably do it, but it would just get a little boring, because you can't leave your room.

[00:09:47] JM: Right. Yeah. I’d probably say no. I would not feel confident doing a cruise right now.

[00:09:51] KT: Yeah. On a lighter note, the future of plane seating was an article that I came across recently. Plane designers are always coming up with new innovative ways to fit as many people on the plane as possible. Of course, airlines want that. To also make it a more comfortable experience, I know Jordan, being as tall as he is, has a hard time on planes sometimes. He's always looking for those comfort-plus seats, the exit rows. He struggles with that and takes all of my leg room, which I don't appreciate.

[00:10:25] JM: Or just block the aisle. You shall not pass.

[00:10:30] KT: Yeah. The ladies are running their carts into his leg the whole time. It's like, “Ah, geez.” Anyways, I am going to post this article in the show notes, because this design that this plane designer came up with is wild. I read the article on it. Said, double-decker airplanes might be the future of air travel. I was thinking a double-decker plane, which I have been on. Sorry to brag, but I've been on one. It was really cool.

[00:11:00] JM: Cool, bro.

[00:11:01] KT: It was a Lufthansa flight, and it was very cool. This is not what you think. Basically, this designer, which I believe it's a kid from Spain, he's 20-years-old. You put your luggage underneath your seat. There's no overhead bins. Then, it's basically staggered seating. Some of the seats are higher. Some of the seats are lower, every other row. I just can't imagine that.

[00:11:28] JM: You got to climb up to your seat?

[00:11:30] KT: Yeah. Well, I'll put two articles. One was CNN that had – yeah, you climb up to your seat. You're basically like, you're already levitating in a plane, then you're upper row. I would just hate that. Then the bags, which I do like this idea.

[00:11:45] JM: [Inaudible 00:11:45].

[00:11:47] KT: I would just hate it. The bags do go under the seat, which I think that's a good idea. Why do we all have to lift our bags in those overhead bins? That's stupid.

[00:11:57] JM: Yeah. It is a little odd when you think about the luggage being over your head, I guess. I never really thought about it that way. It's just, that's how it was. Okay.

[00:12:05] KT: Yeah. I'll attach both of those articles, so you guys can see it for yourself. Wild, as I like to say.

[00:12:12] JM: KT, imagine you're on a road trip. You're driving your new electric vehicle.

[00:12:17] KT: My Tesla.

[00:12:19] JM: As an electric vehicle. Have you got that money?

[00:12:24] KT: Not at the moment.

[00:12:25] JM: All right. You need to recharge. You stop, but it takes 30 minutes to recharge. What are you going to do at that roadway stop with nothing there?

[00:12:38] KT: Sit on Instagram.

[00:12:41] JM: Okay, yeah. That's a valid answer. There are new signs coming to the highways as they build out an infrastructure of recharging stations, where they will make an attempt to highlight some of the historical small towns throughout America with charging stations. While you wait your 30-plus minutes for your car to charge, you can explore the local small towns across America. What do you think about that?

[00:13:09] KT: That’s cute. I love that idea. It's super cute. It gives you something to do, supporting small businesses across America. I'm down with it. I think, it's a great idea.

[00:13:20] JM: You wouldn't just sit on Instagram?

[00:13:22] KT: No, I wouldn't. I would explore the little towns, get a coffee, something like that.

[00:13:26] JM: You would get a coffee and sit on Instagram.

[00:13:30] KT: Probably. I think that's a really good idea. When are they implementing that? Do you know?

[00:13:35] JM: I don't know. Maybe it's even in the future. Who knows how far in the works? You know how slow these things are.

[00:13:41] KT: Right. Okay. Okay. Okay, so one of Jordan and I’s favorite cities is Venice. They were in the news recently, because they are no longer allowing cruise ships as of August 1st, to sail through the city center. Now, they have a roundabout way. They'll dock on the mainland in that industrial port. I think, I agree with this decision, because it's an important step for the safeguarding of the Venetian lagoon. Then, that is what is important here, ladies and gentlemen. Do you agree?

[00:14:15] JM: I'm just trying to picture a cruise ship in Venice with it. I didn't remember seeing any with that.

[00:14:21] KT: I never saw any, but it happens.

[00:14:23] JM: It's just like, these towering ships. Actually, there was an image in the article and it just looks absurd. Yeah, I'm down for it. Especially knowing Venice has a timer on its existence already.

[00:14:33] KT: It's not going to be around forever.

[00:14:36] JM: You want to preserve it as long and as best as possible. Yeah, I’m all for it.

[00:14:39] KT: It's not like cruise ships aren't going to be able to go to Venice. They are. They're just going to have to stop on the mainland. It's just the routes changing, so get over it.

[00:14:51] JM: On a good note, before we start the show, I would just like to share that Delta is reporting profit for the first time since before the outbreak. 

[00:14:59] KT: Yay, Delta.

[00:15:00] JM: Great news for Delta. More importantly, great news for travel as an indication of the way travel has begun bouncing back already. We just hope for continued improvement, continued growth in that area, because we all want to get back out there and see the world again.

[00:15:14] KT: It's great news.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:15:14] JM: Let's get to the show. Amanda and Ryan are world travelers, digital nomads and podcast host themselves. They are the co-founders of The World Wanderers, a podcast and blog on traveling as a lifestyle, travel destinations and the digital nomad life. They started traveling together in 2011 and haven't looked back.

They have been over 60 countries since. Although Canada will always be home, they spend most of their time right now eating tacos and guacamole while exploring Mexico. Amanda and Ryan, thanks for joining us.

[00:15:45] RF: Thanks for having us.

[00:15:46] AK: Yeah, thanks so much for having us. We're excited.

[00:15:48] KT: Yay. If you've listened to any of our episodes, we always ask the same thing first. That is, what is your most memorable travel experience?

[00:15:58] AK: Ooh, that's a good question. Do you have one, or do you want me to go?

[00:16:00] RF: You can go.

[00:16:00] AK: Okay. We went backpacking together for the first time in 2011. We just finished university, or colleges; you guys say in the US. We were taking a six-month gap year, I guess you could say. We arrived in Iceland in the middle of June, like this time. The sun basically doesn't set and we were arriving late at night and getting off of this little plane and just being like, it is 11 p.m. I'm not tired at all, because I've got weird jetlag. It's bright out. It was just the start of this big trip, the longest that both of us had ever been away from home. I feel that's a really strong memory that I have of like, “Cool. I'm doing this thing I've wanted to do for so long.” I'm in this place that's so foreign and so strange.

Iceland wasn't that popular, I guess, 10 years ago, too. It's a big destination for people now to go and visit. When we told people we're going to Iceland, they were like, “Iceland? What's in Iceland? Why are you going there?” We were just doing it, because it was a really good layover to get us over to Europe, to get to London. We just had three days there and it was just amazing. I feel that sticks out really strong in my memory, of this really incredible first step of our travel journey.

[00:17:23] RF: Yeah. I think for me, it's on that same trip. That was our first trip together and my first time traveling independently, without my family. We went from Iceland. We were there for a couple days. We went to London and we were only there for a couple days. We went to Wimbledon, while we were there. I get up at 4 a.m. and wait in the queue to get into Wimbledon. Then only a few days later, we had – the first thing we'd planned on that trip, the big anchor for that trip was we were going to go to San Fermin in Pamplona, Spain, which is the running of the bulls, and that whole event.

We were probably maybe 10 days into this big backpacking trip. We were in San Fermin, in this crazy festival, where – For anyone who doesn't know, the way it works is there's usually a bullfight in the afternoon, evening. Then people go out and party all night. Then, the running of the bulls happens as the end of the night in the morning, where all these people who have been partying all night, try to run and escape from these bulls, get into a bull ring, and then dance around all these other bulls.

We were there, and it's just the wildest festival and there's no rules. You can walk in and out of bars with your glasses, or your bottles of sangria and no one cares. It's just complete anarchy. We were there at 21. I remember thinking like, “This is incredible.” Coming from Canada, where everything's so – everyone follows the rules and everything, so by the book. Being there, I was like, just opening up of anything is possible. This is so amazing. That really stands out to me as a moment where I was like, “I want to do this all the time.”

[00:18:53] JM: Yeah. It makes a lot more sense. That whole festival makes a lot more sense now, knowing that everybody's drinking all night. Now, I get where that courage comes from.

[00:19:03] KT: Liquid courage, right? That's what they call it.

[00:19:06] RF: Brought to you by sangria.

[00:19:08] JM: Yeah, yeah. I think, one thing that resonates with us is that first trip is always something really memorable for us. It was our time in Italy. It's always just like, that first moment where you’re just like, “Wow.” When you realize how big the world is, it always stands out to you.

[00:19:22] KT: I think, another cool thing that you mentioned was going to Iceland before it was popular. I think that's something we share, and we were in Positano, on the Amalfi Coast before it became that ‘it’ place. That was several years ago.

[00:19:35] JM: Social media. Yeah.

[00:19:37] KT: Yeah. I think, it would be interesting to go back and see how populated, or what has changed since.

[00:19:44] JM: There's always this time when these destinations get found by the social media space. Then all of a sudden, everything changes. Even now, I just had somebody tell us they were going to Iceland. Well, I can imagine. Back then, you said, 2011. That was before Instagram probably even – I don't even know if you guys had it at that point. I think it existed, but who had Instagram in 2011, honestly.

[00:20:08] KT: I did.

[00:20:09] JM: Okay. All right.

[00:20:10] KT: No, actually, I think – When did Instagram come out?

[00:20:13] JM: I think, it was 2011. It was [inaudible 00:20:15].

[00:20:15] AK: Yeah. I didn't get it till 2012. It was a year later that I got it.

[00:20:20] KT: Yeah. Interesting.

[00:20:22] JM: You two met in college. The natural next step, right? Everybody graduates college, you go on, you start your life; your corporate life, you get a job, start a career. What we're curious about is, did that route come about naturally? Or did you pursue traveling right out of out of college? What was that time like for you guys?

[00:20:43] AK: Yeah. We started dating in our second year of college. I guess, that's been approached fourth year, we started, I guess, just having conversations about what things look like after. We were from different places, and that type of thing. It turned out that both of us had actually, wanted to travel afterwards. I had said like, “Oh, if I go to college right after high school, then I'll give myself a break to go and travel and see the world once I finish.” Ryan had a very similar idea. I think, it was just very casual like, “Oh, why don't we just do it together?” That seems like, that would be really fun.

People were definitely like, “You're pretty young. You've only been together for two years,” which is long enough to travel together. You have to remember, we're 21 at this point. 21, 22. We were just like, “Whatever. I guess, we'll see if it works. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work.” We both want to do this thing. We want to do it at the same time. We both just spent a lot of time saving money throughout our last year of college, so that we were able to go. We left days after our convocation. Right after we did the walk across the stage, and I know whatever they do with your hat or whatnot. Yeah, we flew to Iceland. We took that trip.

[00:22:01] JM: Wow. Then, after you guys got back, you guys went on to get careers.

[00:22:05] RF: Yeah. At that time, socially as well in Canada, it’s a bit more common to do a bit of a gap year. Finish your school, go travel for a bit, come back home, and then back to real life. I feel like for us, it was, yeah, okay, we're going to have this big, amazing trip, but after this, back to real life.

We spent basically, all the money we had traveling for six months, and then come back home. Well, I was from British Columbia, but went to school in Calgary. Then, that's where we met. We came back to Calgary, and just both went about finding jobs. Amanda found a job working in marketing at the business school that we had gone to. Then, I found a job working in the accounting department of a commercial flooring company, which is as exciting as it sounds.

We did, we went through this phase of having this amazing experience, where we both felt really alive and felt this purpose every day. Back to like, okay, now we're just back on the conveyor belt we've been on, working. Is this really all there is? Is this what we're just going to be doing for the rest of our lives? We stayed on that trajectory for a while, until we decided like, “Hey, this isn't for us. We want to do something again. Let's start saving. Let's start planning a new big trip.”

I mean, I ended up working for two full years in Calgary, and more professional jobs before we decided that we wanted to change routes. We sold all our stuff, moved out of our apartment, and flew with one-way tickets to South America for another six months.

[00:23:35] KT: You guys are brave.

[00:23:36] JM: Yeah. That’s terrifying. Terrifying.

[00:23:39] KT: Yeah. I think, it's interesting, because you both live a nomadic lifestyle, and we do as well. It's hard to go back, because I have girlfriends, where it's like, they're working 9 to 5, Monday through Friday. They have house, plans for kids. They're just doing what you think happens after college. It's just so hard for me to put myself in that space, even think about jumping back into a normal 9 to 5. It just becomes a different reality. You can really tell the difference when you see your friends’ lifestyles.

[00:24:16] JM: Okay. Shout out to your friends.

[00:24:18] KT: No. No, no, no. It's not that.

[00:24:22] AK: You share the common friends with me.

[00:24:24] KT: Yeah. You guys better be listening to the podcast, like I told you about it. No. I'm just saying, it's different.

[00:24:30] RF: Yeah. It's weird too, because I feel especially that first time when you're 21 doing this. Your life is fairly regimented to this point, where it's like, you're going to school, you're going in university, you're doing your summer job, and you go away and you have this experience over six months, or whatever. It feels like that six months feels super quick in one way, because it feels like a passes, where you're like, “Crap, it's over.” It feels very in-depth, where you change so much and then you go home and you're like, “Oh, what have you guys been doing?” They’re like, “Oh, we're still in our fifth year of college. We go to the bar on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays. Maybe wing night on Wednesdays.” Yeah. You feel like, I've seen so much and changed so much, and then maybe not as much as changed here.

[00:25:16] KT: Yeah. That's what I meant. That's what I meant.

[00:25:17] JM: It’s the same when you go back. It really is. You guys, you glossed over this. You're like, “Yeah, we sold everything. We packed up and move to South America.” That's a big thing. Tell us about when you finally decided, “We're going to change things.” How did you do that?

[00:25:34] AK: In the spring of 2012, so we got back to Canada right at Christmas time of 2011. That was when we got back from our first six-month trip. Then in the spring of 2012, I went to Peru, just me and a girlfriend abroad, with a thing in college. I just fell in love with the country. I was like, “This country's amazing.” Knew a little bit of Spanish. The food was great. Came back and it’s like, “Ryan, we have to go to South America.” I just felt there was something calling me to that continent. We just need to explore more.

He was like, “Yeah, I don't know. We already did this. Not too sure.” Then, I think it was my birthday of 2013, which is in February, so the beginning of 2013, Ryan gifted me a South America Lonely Planet. I've been working on him for a couple of months like, “We should go to South America. We should take another trip. We're both not happy with these jobs.” He gifted me this Lonely Planet. He's like, “Let's do it.”

That was the moment where I was like, “Oh, my God. We're going to do this again.” That gave us almost a full year to save enough money and that type of thing to be able to go again. Then, we just sold our furniture and extra clothes. We kept a small storage unit for essentials. Yeah, just got ready to leave essentially, like plans happened pretty fast. Then it just took us a couple of months to actually get everything in order and basically, save the cash to be able to do it.

[00:27:03] KT: Wow. That's really brave, once again. I'm wondering, was there a moment after you left for South America where you were like, “Oh, damn. This is too hard. Maybe we should venture back to Canada, or reevaluate life?”

[00:27:18] RF: Yeah. I think for us, it was once we got out, and we're traveling again, we slowly started to get back into a rhythm. Yeah, we had gotten into and it sounds a bit depressing, but a bit of a funk when we're at home in those two years, where it's just like, we had traveled and had some visions and ideas and thoughts about how we wanted to change up our lives and directions we want to go, dreams we wanted to pursue. Just felt like we fell back into this rhythm of work Monday to Friday, go with friends.

I've actually been dealing with a back injury that led me to be more of a hermit, where I was worried about re-injuring myself all the time. Then as well, because that first big trip of like, okay, you finish college, you travel, and then you get a job, is a bit more socially accepted. Beforehand, I don't know, I was having all these doubts of what if I quit my job? This is my first professional job. Am I going to be homeless when I come back? What happens? You read these articles that are like, “Oh, if you take a career break, that can result in X million dollars of lost income over the course of your career.” All these things that keep you on the rails.

Making the decision came with quite a bit of anxiety around it and less support from people around us, where we're like, “I think we're going to do this.” People are like, “Oh, are you sure? That sounds a weird thing to do when you're 24 and starting your career.”

[00:28:39] AK: It was like, “You already did it. You already took a gap year.”

[00:28:43] KT: Right. Your fun’s over.

[00:28:44] AK: Yeah. You don't get to take another gap year. You don't do this again, once you're in your mid-20s. We were like, “I guess, we do.”

[00:28:51] RF: Then, once we started, once we got out there and we were traveling and I feel like, we took maybe a month of almost shedding this skin or something of we're going places. Then yeah, just feeling alive again. Over the course of that trip, I think was when we were figuring out like, “Hey, there's something about this that really makes us feel alive, that really makes us feel this is something that we need to be doing.”

We know at that time, because we're spending our savings and it's not a sustainable way to live. You always need to be generating, as well as consuming. That got us started thinking about like, “Hey, is there a way we could do this more? Or a way we could incorporate this, so we're not on this pendulum of doing this thing that makes us money that we don't feel excited about to doing this thing that we like, but it's making us go broke? How do we find a balance between those two things?”

[00:29:44] JM: Yeah. First of all, I want to say, I feel a lot of appreciation for you sharing your story about selling everything. I think, that's such a brave thing to do. So many people in this world, they can't give up a phone, let alone sell everything that’s not important. It's one of the things that we've come to appreciate about our lifestyle is how little we need. When you move around like we do, and like you guys do, it forces you to be minimalistic in a way. It's really freeing. To hear that from you guys, I really appreciate that story.

[00:30:19] KT: I think it's inspiring too, that you followed your gut. People had opinions. They shared them with you. People are like, “Oh, that's not how this works.” You still were like, “Yeah, well, we just have this feeling in our gut, and we're going to go for it.” I think that's cool.

[00:30:34] JM: Yeah. Early on, when you guys were traveling, did you look for opportunities to volunteer, or to work to support your travels?

[00:30:41] AK: I guess, I volunteered a little bit when we were in South America at an orphanage, I think it was, or an after-school program. Other than that, we mostly just traveled and lived off savings. It's really easy for Canadians to get a work permit for a year in Australia, so we've gotten the initial paperwork approved for that on our first trip, just in case we decided we wanted to stay, or we needed to work at that point.

We had saved enough money that we were able to backpack the whole time on both trips, which is really nice, because we got to just have that experience of just waking up and not having anything to do in the day, which is pretty cool.

[00:31:21] RF: Yeah. One of the things we quickly discovered on our backpacking was, we did Europe first, then we went to Southeast Asia and we're like, “Oh, my God. Everything is so affordable here.” I remember we stayed in Phnom Penh, Cambodia in a hotel that I think cost us $3 a night. It had bedbugs in it, so it wasn't – it was like, you get what you pay for it. Especially in South America too, sometimes we run across people who were – like, you can volunteer at the hostels and get free stays.

We'd get a hostel, where it costs $7 a night. Someone's like, “Oh, yeah. I volunteer eight hours a day to get this room paid for.” We're like, if we done the math on that, that's maybe better to just go back home for a while, get a normal job, and then just come back out here and travel on savings.” We were doing it very bare bones, staying in dorm rooms, eating cheap, all that type of stuff.

[00:32:14] KT: I think you guys have gotten [inaudible 00:32:16] with those 60 countries. You’re in set 42 right now. What country that you visited surprised you the most?

[00:32:25] AK: That's a good question. I guess, there's two that are coming to mind. I feel like, Bolivia was one that was really interesting for me and just had a lot of surprises. Then Cambodia is another.

[00:32:37] KT: Oh, good. I was hoping you were going to say that.

[00:32:40] AK: Oh, really? Yeah, I think both of them are just different from other countries in that area. We've traveled a lot of Southeast Asia and I feel like Cambodia is really unique. I guess, Myanmar would be another one. I wasn't super surprised by, I guess, things in Myanmar. Cambodia definitely surprised me. Then, yeah, Bolivia is quite different, I think, from its surrounding countries and neighbors. Those would be my –

[00:33:06] RF: Yeah, I think for me, just as far as the lived experience of it would be Colombia. We had gone, like we went at the very start of 2014, so planning in 2013. I feel like, part of this is just coming out of ignorance, but never having been to any countries in South America, or Latin America in general. At that time, the only ideas about Colombia I had were danger, and things like that. Prior to your trip, you read the website about kidnappings and all the bad things that could happen to you.

Yeah, we'd been to Southeast Asia before, so had a sense of developing countries. You're going to Colombia, I guess, I had this one vision in my mind of what it would be like. Then we got there and it was like, “This is amazing.” Everyone's so friendly. It's so easy to get around. You feel really safe. Yeah, and just was blown away by how awesome it was. When I was coming in with like, “What if we get kidnapped? Do I need to have my knife on me in a taxi.” All these ridiculous things, which now I mean, seem ridiculous.

I think, now as well, six years later, a lot of more and more people are traveling and with social media, are telling their stories about how great some of these places are. For me, that was really a surprise of just how quickly we felt comfortable and just, immediately connected with the culture there.

[00:34:21] JM: Yeah. You're lucky you got to go pre-Narcos. I mean, 2014, I think that was before Narcos. I'd never get her to go now. She's terrified.

[00:34:29] KT: No. We actually thought about it when we were looking at – We're in Aruba now and that's what we landed on. We were looking at different options. When he said Colombia, I was like, “No, no, no. No.”

[00:34:41] JM: I've heard the same thing though, from a lot of people like that. Everybody that I know that’s gone there has loved it.

[00:34:48] RF: Yeah, it's one of those places, especially as you're traveling South America, this kind of like, people call it the gringo trail, where people will backpack from one country to the next one and stuff. Everyone's like, “Where's your favorite place?” Colombia. Where? Medellin. Medellin, Colombia? It's 80% of people say that's their favorite place, when they've been to a whole bunch of places in South America.

[00:35:09] AK: Yeah, we said we were there, I think, it was our fourth city or something like that. Then anytime we were somewhere where we get there, and we'd be like, if you're slightly uncomfortable, or maybe it was a hassle to get there, maybe we just didn't have the greatest first impression, we just did like, “Never should have left Medellin.”

[00:35:26] JM: Well, we had to add that one to our list.

[00:35:28] KT: Yeah, you're breaking the stereotypes. I like it.

[00:35:30] JM: KT and I have noticed over the years, that when you're taking on these big adventures, it's always easier and more enjoyable to do it with somebody else, especially a partner, somebody you care about with. How has that affected your adventures? How has that made your – you've done all this stuff together, right? You mentioned having your one trip with your friend, but you guys have taken all these adventures together. How has that helped you guys with this lifestyle, having each other?

[00:36:00] AK: Yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting. We've seen a lot of people spend, a lot of couples in particular, spends more time than they've ever spent together over the last year during the pandemic. For Ryan and I, quarantine life in the pandemic is not new for us. This is basically –

[00:36:18] JM: Same.

[00:36:20] AK: Yeah, the way we've been living, especially nomadically over the last five years. Then also, when we were backpacking and that type of thing. I feel like, it's just you spend so much time together, which is such a gift, to have that much time to spend together. When you get to a point where it's like, you don't have anything to catch up on anymore, you're forced to talk about big life questions and figure out, are you aligned on these deeper values and beliefs and what you really like, believe about life and things like that.

I feel like, not only have we shared a lot of really beautiful experiences together, things like seeing Machu Picchu, or Iguazu Falls, or going to some really cool, historic places in Europe and Asia. It's like, we've also shared a lot of challenges together, where it's missing a bus, or a plane, or being covered in sweat, or having diarrhea, things like that, where it's like, we've had to figure out how to communicate properly and work out these challenges. Just spend a lot of time together. I feel, it's really been a blessing for our relationship.

[00:37:26] JM: That's inspiring. I think, some of our best conversations come during our travels.

[00:37:31] KT: Yeah. It's like, you get to know each other on a deeper level than I think a lot of couples do, because you spend so much time together. It's funny, because I was joking with Jordan. I said, “After this trip, we need to spend a whole 24 hours away from each other,” just because we haven't been apart in so long.

[00:37:47] JM: Just words. Those are just words. We’ll be right there together.

[00:37:53] AK: Yeah. We usually try to do – we both taken solo trips as well. We usually, once a year, we'll have a girls trip, or vice versa, that type of thing. I feel like, just with the pandemic, I don't think we spent any time apart in well over a year.

[00:38:09] RF: Rather than day-to-day.

[00:38:11] AK: Yeah, for sure. Day-to-day.

[00:38:14] JM: Backpacking. Let's touch on that. Before you guys became nomads, you are backpackers, right? We've never backpack before. What was that like? Why did you guys prefer to travel that way?

[00:38:28] RF: For us, I mean, I guess, it just felt the most accessible thing. I feel, it was like, if we had the option at 19-years-old, that'd be luxury travelers. We would have been like, “Fuck, yeah. Let's do it.” We're like, we've got, I don't know. I don't know how much money we had saved up that first trip. 10 grand?

[00:38:47] AK: Yeah, probably about that.

[00:38:48] RF: We're like, how can we make this money last over six months? The answer is doing everything cheap. Staying in hostels. Walking from the train station to wherever you're staying. Eating deli meat and stealing buns from the hostel breakfast to eat at lunch as well. For us, it was just like, that was the way to do it. It was the most accessible thing.

Then also, I think we just fell in love with it, that first trip, especially the staying at different hostels and getting to know all these other people who are doing this similar thing. Because it is this interesting community, where you'll run into people in one city, and then a couple of cities down and you show up at a new hostel, and you just make fast friends with all these people. It's really interesting, because I think for us, it was really important for our development, because you show up and your maybe you're staying in a hostel around with 10 people. You're used to judging people. Maybe you find out that you end up connecting with people, you dismissed originally. Or you you're in a room and you're like, “Oh, I think I'll be friends with that person.” Then a couple hours later, after you've had a few drinks, and you're like, “I really don't like them at all.” Yeah, just really got to meet so many interesting people. It just opens your perspective so much.

[00:40:03] AK: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think it was definitely, we could have done a shorter trip and done. I mean, Airbnb wasn't really even a thing a decade ago. We could have done hotels, but obviously, we would have had to travel for a significantly shorter period of time. Yeah, like Ryan said, we were just like, how can we stretch this money as far as possible? It's pretty cool, with hostels, you can usually show up at a hostel, you can book them online on hostel worlds, or hostel world was usually what we used. You can show up and they'll usually have events going on, like being doing bar crawls, or dinners together, or there'll be walking tours. It's all geared towards younger people, backpackers, so it's super affordable, which is really, really great.

Then they can also often book your bus to the next place and whatnot. We felt it was just such a great way to travel, especially in that time when we weren't as connected, because 2011 we didn't travel with cellphones. We traveled with a Lonely Planet. We would often look at the directions and screenshot them on my iPad. Then, we would just follow those directions, like old school, like walk to this building, turn right, turn left, and it's the house with the yellow door type thing. We didn’t iPhones that were dragging us places.

I feel it was a really cool time to be able to do that trip, because technology's advanced so fast since then, which obviously, makes our current lifestyle possible and super easy. Yeah, I think, just being young and wanting to meet people and wanting to go out a little bit and then wanting to save money was the biggest factors.

[00:41:45] JM: I can imagine.

[00:41:46] KT: No. It reminds me of when my mom, we used to go on road trips, or vacation and she'd print off the MapQuest and I'd send the passenger see, and she'd be like, “Okay, now tell me what to do.” I'm like, “Turn right at the second light.” It's like, things have changed so much. It was funny.

[00:42:02] RF: It was the funniest thing, because yeah, we used hostel world to book places. Then each hostel would have the direction. It'd be like, you should maybe take the train somewhere, and you arrive, and someone who is maybe written in in Spanish or Italian and then translated it into English. The weirdest directions to follow. Somehow, we were just always like, because we didn't have cellphone data or whatever. We’re like, I guess, we just follow the directions. I'm just like, turn left at this thing, and then turn right at this thing. Then we’d arrive at a fork that's just not mentioned in the directions.

[00:42:32] AK: I feel like, backpacking is really unglamorous. I feel, I remember sweating a lot, getting off of a plane and you're already throw some traveling and then you have your big backpack on your back. You have your small backpack on your front. You're following these directions you've screenshotted, walking through a new city. It's like, “Oh, it should only take 20 minutes,” but it takes an hour because you have no idea where you’re going.

[00:42:55] JM: Right. You got bad directions. I mean, traveling, man. Again, we've never backpack, but it makes you feel so empowered and capable. You'd feel like, “I could do anything.” I mean, traveling that way, I can only imagine how you guys feel.

[00:43:12] KT: Something I just have to ask as an over-packer myself and someone who has never been backpacking before, how do you manage that? How big are these backpacks? Is this like, you can fit everything in it? Are you having to obviously, do your laundry or buy new underwear? 

[00:43:33] JM: You're not decisive enough for that.

[00:43:34] KT: No, I don't think I am. Can you give our listeners and myself some advice there?

[00:43:40] AK: Yeah, for sure. I think, my backpack is 75 liters. It's a good size. It's probably pretty close to what you could fit in a suitcase. I mean, with full transparency, I had to ship clothes home on the first trip, because my backpack, I thought I was going to break the zipper. I just packed way too many things. After we got out of the UK and into Spain on that trip, I was like, “Well, I don't need three pairs of pants.” I'm probably fine with one pair of jeans, or two pairs of jeans and one pair of leggings type thing. One jacket, not two.

I learned really quickly what I didn't need. I think, when you have to cart that weight around, you have incentive to not buy things. We find even, we've been in Mexico for eight months. We've been in our current apartment for three months and there's all of the luxuries in Mexico that you have in the US. It's like, I bought a bunch of stuff from H&M a couple of weeks ago and I'm like, “Oh, I have to pack this all up soon. I don't know if it's going to fit.” I feel like, when you're packing and unpacking a lot, when we backpacked, I think, we were every four days having to repack. It's like, you do have a lot of incentive to not have a lot of stuff.

[00:44:51] JM: Yeah. I learned that lesson not so much from having a backpack and carry it, but just from how much stuff I left around the world. You can only leave somewhere an item and was like, you have to buy some things. There's so many places along the way that I've just – I mean, a pile of stuff. Russia, there's a pile of stuff that I just couldn't bring.

[00:45:13] KT: Jordan’s a reader. I remember our first year in Rome, he made me bring a whole duffel, an athlete's duffel bag of books, hardcover books. I was like, “I'm never doing this again ever.”

[00:45:28] JM: I did the book thing for a few years before. I was just like, you can't –

[00:45:31] KT: Kindle. He has a Kindle now on iPad.

[00:45:35] RF: I had also have – I wouldn't call it a problem. I like to have books. I greatly prefer reading physical books to the Kindle. The first time we travel, I think, I ended up half my bag was books. It's also like, I've read this book, and I've underlined them. I've written my notes. I don't want to just leave them places. Then yes, I was able to successfully shift to a Kindle for a while, which created some good space. Then lately, I've just been like, I missed physical books. Also, I'm reading in Spanish now. We're in Mexico, I'm like, “I want to buy my favorite books in Spanish.” I don't want to read them on the Kindle. Maybe I can't get them in the Kindle Store, so I'm going to have a problem when we're trying to go back to Canada in a couple of weeks. I'm not sure how it's going to be resolved yet.

[00:46:17] AK: Yeah. The other day, I was looking around our apartment. I think, I counted 13 books, none of which are mine.

[00:46:22] KT: Uh-oh.

[00:46:23] JM: Yeah, it's definitely different. The physical book is different. I mean, I have the iPad with the pencil. It's cool. It's just something about those pages and highlighting. It’s just different, man. It's different. It's definitely the hardest part for me about the while traveling and packing is figuring that holds this way, because then I got a bunch of notebooks too, that I will write in. I got different notebooks for different things.

[00:46:45] KT: It's like, you can't leave your deepest, darkest secrets in your notebooks in a different country.

[00:46:49] JM: No. You got to burn them. You got to burn them.

[00:46:52] KT: Before we move on, I just want to touch on backpacking. I know you outlined some packing things for the backpacking. Do you have any other pointers for someone that might be interested in getting started?

[00:47:05] AK: Yeah, that's a good question. I feel like, just doing it is the biggest thing. I think, it can be really scary, the idea of maybe sharing space with strangers, or maybe staying in a new country where you don't know people. I think, the natural environment of hostels is super welcoming, especially to solo travelers, or people who are traveling for the first time. It's really great, because you basically, automatically have friends, right away when you're backpacking.

I think, just not being afraid to just go and do it and put yourself out there. Then, using a service, a booking service, like hostel world is great, because it's got reviews. It's similar to the way Airbnb work, with the way you can see reviews and how they're broken down. Hostel world works very much the same way. We relied pretty heavily on people's reviews to pick places that were a good fit for us. I think, using that type of service is really worth it.

[00:48:01] RF: Yeah. Then, I’d definitely echo that. Then, one great book that's more an inspiration is Vagabonding by Rolf Potts. If anyone's interested, that's an awesome book to get some inspiration out of.

[00:48:12] JM: Book Rex. I like it. I like where the show is going. That's been a common theme, though, from a lot of our guests, is just having the courage to just do it. It can be really scary. Whether you want to backpack, or solo travel, or –

[00:48:22] KT: Buy a one-way ticket. That’s been the thing.

[00:48:24] JM: Yeah. That was one piece of advice we got in the past as well. You guys are digital nomads now. You transitioned from the saving up and backpacking. You guys are full-time on the road, supporting your lifestyle, and you've been doing it for half a decade. It's become somewhat of a buzzword, but we want to know, how did it start, supporting that lifestyle? How has that evolved over the years?

[00:48:44] RF: Yeah. It definitely was a bit of an adventure. On that actual, the very first trip we took, so in 2011, we met a guy at a hostel in Switzerland who was working from there. I remember, that just blew my mind. I was like, “What?” He was a programmer. I didn't know if he worked independently or whatever. Obviously, never heard of digital nomads before. I was like, “That's wild. That sounds amazing. How do I make that happen?” Then, so put that to the side. Three years later, when we're in South America, we're meeting more people who are doing teaching English abroad, and stuff like that.

That's how we started thinking. We knew like, “Hey, we want to do something that's got a lot of adventure in it.” We don't want to go home and get jobs. We want to try to do something else. We were thinking like, “Okay, maybe we can start looking for opportunities to teach English in China, in Korea, where people are making good money and able to travel around a lot.” We started thinking about that. That was around the same time we started our podcast in 2014. 

That wasn't for us. That was more of a passion thing, where we just love having these conversations. Let's keep doing this. We can use it as a context to interview people. We were never thinking like, “Oh, hey. This could be something that could allow us to be digital nomads.” Started on that, and just with all these smaller projects.

Then, I think the big thing that was where Amanda started more of a nomad life was I found a program and a job in Atlanta, Georgia, and went through the process to apply for it. Got accepted. Figured out all the visa stuff. Then we moved to Atlanta, which allowed me to work from there, but Amanda wasn't going to be able to work in the states, because she didn't have a work visa. That forced her to figure out how to work online back in 2015.

[00:50:33] AK: Yeah. I was working for a yoga studio in Canada. I basically was like, “Hey, I don't really need to be at the studio.” I’m just like, “Could we try and see what works for me to do this from Atlanta?” He was like, “Yeah, sure.” He's like, “Why don't we try it and see if it works?” Then, we were working on The World Wanderers. I think, we signed our first sponsor right around then.

I launched another podcast in the business of yoga. I was teaching some yoga. I mean, I wasn't making that much money, but I just started doing that and growing that. Then shortly after Ryan finished his work contract, it was about a year later, we both got offered coaching positions with one of the companies he'd been working with. That got us both to a level where we were making enough money that we were like, “Okay, I think we can leave Canada. We can go do this somewhere else.”

I mean, Canada and the US are extremely expensive. For anyone who is maybe you're making $1,000 to $2,000 a month, that goes so much further when you're in Mexico, or Southeast Asia. It's actually really great to be able to head over to Southeast Asia and work from there, because we're like, “Sweet. We can actually live pretty comfortably here. We're not below the poverty line.” This gives us less stress to actually work on our businesses, grow what we're doing. Then slowly from there, things just started developing, taking shape and growing more and more to the point where we were making sustainable money.

[00:52:01] JM: Right. Again, just reiterating, you guys started small. It was Ryan's job in the small move, and having the courage to ask for that opportunity. It wasn't just, a lot of people might look at The World Wanderers and look at you guys now and think that it's unattainable, or they couldn't do it. It just starts with a small step like, “Hey, can I work from here?” Finding out opportunities that offer you bits of freedom to start to build that life. I like how you guys said, you were building your company as you were doing those things, too.

[00:52:33] RF: I think now too, we just did an episode on why it's such a great time to start as digital nomad, especially over the past year, so much more work is available remotely. There's so many more services and options and tools and co-working spaces. It's such an awesome time. It stems, starts from that decision of just for us, we were like, okay, I'm finishing this job. We don't have our financial plans in order, or our budget. We just bought tickets to Southeast Asia and we're like, “We're going there. We're going to figure it out. It's going to be cheap to live and we're going to figure it out eventually.”

Then, once you're living in Southeast Asia, or you're traveling full-time, you're not going to take a full-time job in any one given place. The only opportunities that come your way are the ones that you can say yes to.

[00:53:19] KT: Yeah. That reminds me when Jordan and I were here in Aruba, we were eating at a Reuben restaurant. This family from Venezuela was there, and they were telling us. They're like, “Oh, where are you guys staying? How long are you here?” We were talking about the different dishes we are trying. They were like, “Yeah, with our job, we don't have to go to the office. We just came here for a month.” They found somewhere to – a house to rent here. It was like –

[00:53:48] JM: On a monthly rate. That's one thing you guys talk about. Right now, especially in the world, there's a ton of monthly rates and things available for –

[00:53:55] KT: Airbnb was giving 45% off, or something if you stay for a month. They're like, “Yeah, it's $1,700 for the month.” I was just like, “Wow.”

[00:54:04] JM: This was a whole family with two kids. They were doing it. It's like, almost anybody can do it. It might be harder for people with a physical job. Unless, you find something that allows that type of freedom. There's so many people now that can do that.

[00:54:19] KT: Yeah, that they couldn't before. I think it's cool. You guys started that and you're –

[00:54:25] JM: Trendsetters.

[00:54:26] KT: Yeah, exactly. Now, everyone's thinking about it, or attempting it. Can you talk to us more about The World Wanderers, about your podcast? What made you start it in the first place? I know, you said it was a passion project. When did you decide like, “Oh, hey. This might be a little more than that.”

[00:54:44] AK: Yeah. The idea was actually Ryan's. He suggested it while we were near the end of our South America trip. He was like, “I think we should start a podcast.” I was like, “I don't think we’re people who can start podcasts.” We don't have degrees in broadcasting, or radio and he's like, “No, that's a beautiful thing about podcasting. Anyone can start one.” I was like, “Oh, okay. What would we talk about?” He's like, “Well, we travel a lot. That could be pretty cool.” I was like, “Okay, I'm open to the idea.”

We started, we didn't have any of the equipment. We just started practicing having conversations on one of our iPhones, I think it was. Just recording it. It sounded bad. We'd be in hostel rooms, so nobody else was there, that type of thing. Just starting to what would it be like to have these conversations.

Then we got back to Canada shortly after that. Actually, got microphones and learned how to do a podcast. We launched it in August of 2014. I think, I was pretty much right away, I was like, “Oh, on Libson there's this button for ads. When do we get to add ads to our show?” Ryan's like, “We have just one person a day listening to our podcast. We need more people.” I was like, “Okay.” Then, I think it was probably a year and a half before we had our first sponsor.

[00:56:03] RF: No, longer than that. We have started in August 2015.

[00:56:07] AK: 2014.

[00:56:09] RF: 2014. Then yeah, it was funny. I remember early on, we had this day, probably two months in, where 50 people listened to it. Because we weren't doing anything. We just put the episodes up on the Internet, then I was like, “Whoa, 50 people listened to it. What happened?” We were also just baby podcasters, where you're sharing your opinions on things and worried that people are going to start arguing with you, or something.

Yeah, just kept growing and growing and growing. Then, I think it was in 2016, so 18 to 20 months later, where we were finally got our first sponsor. We're like, “Okay, cool. This is actually something that's happening.” We can make some of our money doing from this. Then I started reaching out to other companies to see if they would sponsor the show, and going from there.

[00:56:59] JM: Did you ever listen to a podcast in 2014?

[00:57:02] KT: I am an avid podcast listener, but I don't think I was into it in 2014. I think that was even a little early for me.

[00:57:09] JM: No, that's impressive, I think, that you guys were –

[00:57:11] KT: You had that idea.

[00:57:12] JM: The idea and the courage to follow through. Now, it's like, everybody's got a podcast.

[00:57:17] KT: Everyone and their brother.

[00:57:18] JM: Everyone starts one.

[00:57:20] RF: In high school and university, I worked in vineyards in the summer. It was eight to 10 hours a day, you're just standing outside, with friends, which is fine, but also just doing really menial, physical tasks, like peeling leaves off grapes and stuff like that. I would just listen to podcasts all the time. At that point, it was like, there wasn't even enough stuff to listen to. I had a couple hockey shows I liked. I listened to the Joe Rogan Show. It'd be like, “Oh, it's Tuesday. I've got to wait until Wednesday, because there's not enough content.”

Yeah, I was listening to an episode, while we were hiking, of Smart Passive Income by Pat Flynn. This was, I don't know, episode in 2013, I guess. He had talked about how he got fired from his job, decided to start this podcast. At that point, it just gone full-time doing it. I was like, “Oh, that's really cool. I bet we could do something like that as well.” That was the inspiration on his show, Smart Passive Income.

[00:58:14] JM: I think, it's cool to how you talk about practicing those conversations. I think, that's one of the things we've enjoyed most about on arrival so far is that these are conversations that we enjoy anyways, as I'm sure you guys can relate. These are conversations you would probably had in the hostel with your friends. For us, we'd have these conversations over dinner, or with family and friends. It's a way to share these experiences and your thoughts in a way that you probably would do anyways.

[00:58:42] AK: Yeah. No, a 100%. I really resonated. You guys said this on our show, just like having these conversations and then wanting to record them. I think that was very much the same for us. We're having so many cool conversations with other travelers with each other. Why don't we actually make that something that's official?

[00:59:01] KT: You touched on this, but what can people expect when they listen to The World Wanderers Podcast?

[00:59:07] RF: Yeah. The World Wanderers Podcast, we think of it as a bit of a free-form look into our lives. It's always evolving, always changing, but it combines, we do interviews with great guests, like yourselves, but people who are living interesting lives that incorporate travel. It's not so much just about travel. It's about living self-directed lives around the world, and whatever that looks like.

We've got lots of interesting episodes and people doing all sorts of interesting stuff. Then, we also document a lot of our own travels on there. We recently are about to put out an episode that's documenting a road trip we took here in Mexico down to Manzanillo and part of the [inaudible 00:59:43]. Then interviews, and then occasionally, topic episodes will do and talk about stuff related to digital nomad life. Anyone who's really interested in going beyond, here's the destination. It's cool for these reasons and more deeper into travel as a lifestyle. I think, we'll find a lot of interesting stuff they like.

[01:00:05] KT: Yeah. I listened, on our way to Aruba, I listened to the episode with the Canadian guy that took his family to the monastery, I think. That was a really cool episode. Yeah, very cool.

[01:00:18] JM: Being down here in Aruba has got me like, “Man, I want to –”

[01:00:22] KT: He turns like, “I wonder if they have a training facility here?” I'm like, “They don't.”

[01:00:28] RF: The Aruba national team.

[01:00:30] JM: Yeah. I don't want to go home. I'm good here. I'm good here. Our last question today is travel is fun and it's exciting. You guys have lived just an unbelievable life so far, bouncing everywhere around the world. Are you guys ever tempted to settle down? Do you see that in the near future?

[01:00:47] AK: Yeah. I mean, this is the question, I think, everyone wants to know. I think, we don't really know the answer to that. I mean, obviously, with a pandemic over the last year, we were definitely forced to slow down in a pretty big way. We were in Canada for seven months. I mean, we looked at buying a house, getting an investment property. It didn't end up working out, which I think was just a sign from the universe, that that's not what we were meant to do. I think, we're pretty set on basing ourselves in Mexico over the next couple of years, then traveling from here.

I think, just as things start to reopen, we were talking about this before we officially started, there's just a lot of rules and regulations and hoops to jump through. I think for us, we really like it here. We have good time zone. The climate’s great. We have residency here. We can stay in Mexico. I think, we are slowing down a little bit.

[01:01:42] RF: Yeah. We definitely have over time, realized we really enjoy settling into a place more. We tend to stay, or at least set up a home base somewhere for three to six months, and then use that as a hub. One of the reasons we love being in Mexico is that domestic flights, they're getting more expensive, but tend to be very affordable, very available as well. This past weekend, we spent four days in Mexico City. We've traveled a bunch, while just basing ourselves here in Puerto Vallarta.

We feel as well, we've fallen in love a bit with Mexico. It's a place where when we came for the first time, we had a list of five things you wanted to see. Now, we've been here for more or less three, four years.

[01:02:22] JM: A bit longer.

[01:02:24] RF: It's so massive, because there's so many places we want to see now. Yeah, we found that we like more of that lifestyle of have set up a home base for three to six months, use it as a hub, go back to Canada for a few months, spend time with our family and then try to go somewhere else for a bit more of an adventure every year is more of our rhythm. When we were starting, we were like, “Okay, two weeks on the next one. Let's keep it moving.” We've definitely slowed down a bit.

[01:02:48] KT: That's cool. Yeah. I feel like, that's a really common thread with digital nomads within the community, is finding your home base, or home bases and then working your adventures from there. For anyone listening, I think that's a good way to go about it.

[01:03:03] JM: It’s a good strategy, for sure.

[01:03:05] KT: Yeah. Last but not least, we want to follow you guys. We want our listeners to listen to the podcast. Where can they find you?

[01:03:13] AK: Yeah. Anywhere that they're listening to this show, they should be able to find it out, The World Wanderers. We’re on all major podcast platforms. Then at theworldwanderers.com. Then on Instagram and Facebook, it's @theworldwandererspodcast.

[01:03:27] JM: Great. Yeah. We'll be sure to share that in the show notes. Thank you, guys, so much for joining us. It was a great time. Thank you.

[01:03:34] KT: Yes. Thanks, guys.

[OUTRO]

[01:03:36] KT: Thanks for listening to another episode of On arrival. We've had so much fun recording these episodes and sharing them with you every week.

[01:03:44] JM: If you like this episode, share it with somebody. Don't forget to subscribe to our show, On Arrival Podcast on all podcast platforms. We would really appreciate it if you would write us a positive review, wherever you choose to listen.

[01:03:56] KT: Look for us on social media @onarrivaltravel on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter.

[01:04:02] JM: If you're looking for more episodes, you can always head over to onarrival.com.

[END]